Welcome to Access Granted, the podcast dedicated to financial education for millennials and younger.
I’m your producer, Anna, and every week we cut through the noise to bring you practical tools, unfiltered conversations, and strategies that actually work so that you can build wealth on your own terms.
Today we’re joined by CJ, the brains behind NOYACK, this podcast, our newsletter, which you can subscribe to by clicking the link in the description.
CJ, quick question before we get started. Why is financial education so important with today’s seemingly back and forth financial climate?
CJ: Well, first of all, thank you. I don’t know about the brains – that was a very generous intro, Anna. Thank you for interviewing today since tariffs and financial education are things that are near and dear to my heart, and I’ve dedicated my life to financial education for the younger generation.
I think financial education is the only way for all of us intergenerationally to take control of what we want, to take control of achieving financial goals. Financial education is also very important right now with all these tariffs going on. Every time you turn on the TV or open your phone to scroll through your feed, you have someone talking about the tariffs, the stock market, everything that’s going on. No one’s really explaining the basis of these policies, what a tariff is.
So I’m going to ask you: what is a tariff in its absolute simplest terms?
CJ: Excellent point. Global trade is not a simple concept that people wake up in the morning and say, “Hey, I got to learn more about it,” but it is very critical and ever more now because it affects them.
So let’s break it down. Tariffs are taxes. Yes, they are taxes. I know they have a nice fancy word of “tariffs.” It doesn’t seem painful because you’re not sure what they are. But tariffs are taxes. Our government slaps them on stuff that we buy from other countries. They are a tax on things like clothes, cars, coffee. Oh my God, that’s the one that hits. I can no longer get my single origin from Colombia without a tax. That’s painful.
So picture a $40,000 European car – a 25% tariff or tax bumps it to $50,000. Now if you’re buying here, you don’t care that you’re the one paying for it. You don’t feel that it’s a personal tax, but it is. Why? Because they’re trying to make American goods look cheaper, and the government’s trying to change your behavior, our behavior. They’re trying to get factories working again here at home – AKA reshoring, bringing manufacturing back to this country.
It’s sort of like giving local industries a head start, giving them a leg up. You’re giving them an advantage over foreign manufacturing.
Now listen, the goals – more jobs here, made in the USA – 100% for it. But here’s the catch: those prices, those taxes hit American consumers. Until you change your behavior and if you’re still buying a foreign good, it’s a tax on us, the buyer.
Last thing I’ll say about those jobs – I think it was Dave Chappelle who said this, but Professor G just stole it. Everyone’s co-opting the phrase: Most Americans don’t want to make Nikes, they want to wear Nikes.
So there are a lot of jobs that are offshore in other countries that we do not want, nor does our environment here in this country – clean air, clean water – want what it takes to keep those jobs here and make those goods. So there is a tricky balance. I’ll go into it later about free trade versus fair trade.
But that’s what tariffs are. The sooner we start deleting the word “tariffs” and insert the word “tax” – it’s a consumer tax – the more it’ll be understandable.
Anna: I think that’s a really important definition for us to have defined just because we’re hearing it everywhere, especially since it almost seems as if every other second the White House is putting a new tariff on something somewhere. This video scrolled up on my Instagram feed that was a song about all the different countries in the world, and every single country that the Trump administration had put a tariff on – it was almost the entire list. It was hilarious.
Another term that’s being thrown around a lot is “reciprocal tariffs.” So I guess this is a two-part question: what exactly is going on with these Trump administration tariffs and how do reciprocal tariffs fit into all of that?
CJ: I’ll just do a quick segue on my last point about tax versus the word tariff. Tariffs are taxes. It’s a bit ironic that the current administration essentially ran on a platform of lower taxes and the first thing they do is raise taxes on consumers, but they do it with a nice word of “tariff” and they demonize foreign manufacturers in order to put this tax on and give it a little bit of smoke and mirrors. I find that tremendously ironic.
Anna: I’m gonna cut in real quick. One misconception I’ve seen a lot on social media about tariffs is that when you put tariffs on goods from another country, that other country is paying those taxes. That is not true, correct?
CJ: You’re absolutely correct because what’s happening – they’re not paying a tax, they’re getting, well, first of all, they get really angry and they’re no longer our friends. Every country needs friends and we definitely need friends because we have so many countries that do not like us. That happens and you’re not taxing them. You’re crushing their buyers and we are their buyers.
Getting back to reciprocal taxes, here’s the deal with 2025 and reciprocal taxes: the US is playing hardball with tariffs. There’s a 10% tax on all imports. It doesn’t matter if it’s from Brazil or Bangladesh. That’s what they said, the 10% tax.
But when you add on reciprocal tariffs, which is basically a stare down – it’s a game of tariff chicken. If China comes back and says, “Oh, you do 10% to us, we’re doing 30% to you.” And then we say, “Oh, you do 30% to us, well, we’re now doing 30% to you.” And they say, “Oh, you’re doing 30% to us. Well, we’re now doing 145%.” And it gets ridiculous.
I have a three-year-old and a five-year-old, and I think they act better than that. It’s actually sad because the people making those decisions are not the ones really paying those taxes. It is us, the consumer, especially anyone who buys on Amazon. Because if you’ve ever been on Amazon recently and you just did a sampling of 10 things you want, eight of them are from China.
There are unintended consequences that I don’t believe the administration understands – the interconnectedness of global trade and its downstream unintended consequences.
Anna: I think that sensationalization of these tariffs on the Internet has made a lot of younger people skeptical of everything that’s happening with them. What are the cold, hard facts that might give Gen Z and millennials some reason to be skeptical of everything that’s happening right now?
CJ: Well listen, you grew up snagging deals from anywhere you can on the Internet. Should you be skeptical? Absolutely. I think that should be a – when considering anything that any bureaucracy or authoritarian government imposes should immediately be met with a side eye.
But also you’ve been trained to be a globalist at your age, Anna. You grew up finding deals from Alibaba and Temu and Shein. And then all of a sudden they say, “Oh, guess what? All that stuff you learned about finding the best deal on Amazon and using AI to cross-reference all of your shopping – all that’s done. We only want you to buy down the street.”
And you say, “Well, I love down the street. I love Mr. Vu down the street. I really do. And I love Mr. and Mrs. Smith at the bakery. But they don’t make this. They don’t want to make this thing I want. So what do I do then?”
“Well, we can’t help with that.” This is the government talking. “We can’t help with that. But if you do want to still buy from these other places, you’re gonna have to pay 25, 35, 45% more.”
And you’re like, “But I don’t have that money. We got inflation already and you want more inflation.”
You’re right to question if this is fair.
Speaking about financial education, I’ll give another reason why financial education is critical: because the people you felt were credible that you could trust, you can no longer trust. The systems that you thought you could trust, maybe you should say, “You know what, maybe I should trust but verify.”
Meaning, let me teach myself about facts and understanding and critical thinking about financial topics and then put what they’re doing through that filter of what I know. I’ll make a decision which is right for me. That’s why financial education is critical – to provide the critical thinking with a healthy dose of skepticism about what someone else is doing to your behaviors and your economics.
Anna: Are tariffs inherently a bad thing? And are there cases in which they can be useful to a country such as the United States?
CJ: Great question. Maybe I’ve been overly critical about the whole situation and that’s actually not accurate about how I feel personally.
Let’s talk straight. Tariffs aren’t evil. They’re not. I do call them a tax, but taxes are necessary. We have garbage pickup and healthcare and so many things because of taxes. We have national parks because our taxes support the existence of national parks.
So taxes or tariffs are not evil, but they’re not a free lunch. I just hate the misdirection, the way people are lying. There’s a lack of transparency from the administration about what these really are, and I’m trying to clear that up.
I am all about fair trade. I do not hate tariffs. I think every country needs fair trade. Free trade, which is what we had before, was unfair to the American worker. It was great for the American consumer, but it wasn’t great for American industry and American manufacturing and American workers.
Fair trade means American workers and small businesses aren’t crushed by countries with super cheap labor or sketchy environmental rules. But tariffs, when used not like a three and five year old, can help level the playing field. It’s giving our steel workers a fighting chance. Not to go overboard – the reciprocal tariffs are a problem.
I think you have to be consistent in your decision making. I am an independent. I’m not going to talk too much about politics. I look at issues independent of party. I might be fiscally conservative, I might be socially liberal. It doesn’t really matter for this podcast. No one cares about what I am.
Consistency is important, and this administration is whipsawing people, its own consumers, the stock market. It’s whipsawing our friends and trading partners.
Trade has existed since countries existed. If you think you’re not going to have trade, you are insane. The last time reciprocal tariffs were put on a base tariff program was the Smoot-Hawley Act and it caused the Great Depression. The only time we’ve done it and right away it caused the Great Depression – one for one.
So I think it’s a pretty big risk when we’re not in the best shape post pandemic. We’re not in the strongest shape. We’re still getting our feet under us. We’re doing OK to take the risk of reciprocal tariffs.
But I want to leave with this: balance is the key. Tariffs, balanced, consistent – that is what I consider fair trade. Reciprocal tariffs, changing one day, 30-day delays – that is inconsistent and that is childish and amateurish.
Anna: What’s the large-scale impact of the tariffs on the economy right now? And how does that compare to the smaller impact on an individual’s life?
CJ: Well, first of all, I mentioned unintended consequences and I really do believe – listen, there are a lot of smart people in government. Scott Bessent, our Treasury Secretary, is a brilliant and very experienced individual. Now, not everyone gets listened to. Sometimes the more inexperienced and less insightful people, for some reason get listened to more than someone like Treasury Secretary Bessent.
I believe that the unintended consequences of what’s happening are beyond what they expected. For example, it’s like tossing a pebble in a pond – ripples everywhere. And you’re not really sure how far they’re going to go.
They’re driving up prices. They’re adding fuel to inflation. That $80 hoodie could be $95 soon. Businesses pass on those costs. Some don’t. You don’t know which ones are going to choose to eat the costs and then they’re less profitable and then their stockholders leave or shareholders leave and then their stock price drops. Then in response, they do something that might not be a great decision. They may not invest in the factory that they need to build. So that is one example of the ripple effects that could go through an economy.
Most do pass on costs – stuff like cars, furniture, seafood gets pricier because we get a lot of seafood from Asia.
Uncertainty about these effects stops everyone. It stops us, you and me, from buying stuff because the prices are high. It stops us maybe from making investments because I don’t know where we’re going to be. I think I need the cash. Let’s stuff it under the mattress. Let’s put it into the bank and get like 2%. That’s not smart. There’s high yield savings accounts for that.
And farmers – how about the unintended consequence it’s having on our farmers? It’s a mixed bag. There’s some wins on local jobs, but there’s a real challenge when you factor in all these unintended consequences to the growth of this country.
What’s happening in the stock market? All of a sudden stock market drops. Our 401k plans see drops and people who are 50, 60, 70 and may not have the same earning capacity, they see their 401k drop. They’re like “buy nothing. Don’t take trips” – trips in this country because we don’t want to spend. So you’re not spending. So now the airlines get hurt. And that hotel or that small mom and pop B&B, they’re not gonna get your business.
It can touch literally everything because when emotions take over and they are taking over, then you don’t say, “Oh, I’m really smart. I’m just going to drop it 8%. I’m just going to change 8% of my buying this year and just do little tweaks.” That would be nice if we all knew ourselves so well and could budget that effectively.
But even me, and I like to think I’m a financial educator and an investment expert, I wake up and I get crazy. I call my wife, I’m like, “Buy nothing. Send it back, send it back.” And she’s like, “Wait, what? It’s food. It’s our kids’ clothes.” I’m like, “Send it back, return, return.”
This is irrational behavior. But when you see the numbers drop like they have, it’s hard to not get irrational. So that irrationality from usually rational people – I think these are the ripple effects that are happening that people did not expect.
Anna: Alongside with that, there’s a lot of investors out there that are wondering how they can protect their portfolios against a lot of these ups and downs that we’ve seen happen. When a lot of people think investing, their brain automatically goes to the stock market. Here at NOYACK, we do a lot of work with alternative investments, other places to put your money, other ways to help build your wealth. What’s some advice that you have to people who are trying to inflation-proof their portfolios and to stop them from having so much volatility with everything?
CJ: OK, so yes, tariffs – consumer taxes – are going to cause inflation. That’s an obvious direct consequence. There’s nothing hidden about that. At the same time, tariffs may slow growth in this country because we’re all buying less. We’re making less because no one’s buying it. If you put those two things together, we grow slower but prices are going up, especially from foreign country goods. Slow growth, higher prices – stagflation. Literally the worst thing that can happen to an economy.
I hate to say this. I don’t want to be Dr. Doom, but December 2023 – now I’m patting myself on my back – December 2023 in our annual predictions for 2024, I said I believe we are heading for a stagflationary environment. I felt that because of our debt. That was before a new president came in and said we’re going to do crazy tariffs. So I already thought we were on the brink and I was wrong about 2024. I’ve said that.
However, I felt the economy was set up and it was like a really dry pile of firewood and the tariffs were like that match.
How can they inflation-proof? Well, disclosure: we love alts. There’s no two ways – people literally call me the “alts guy.” NOYACK is all about access to private markets, hence our tagline “Access Granted.”
So take what I’m just about to say with a grain of salt. I’m talking our own book and our own agenda.
That said, there’s very few people you would find that could make a cogent argument against alternative investments in order to protect against inflation, because it’s something called correlation.
If stock prices are going down, alternative investments are seeing more people leave. So people leave the stock market. There’s demand for alternative investments. If you’re already one of those people who own them and more people want them, that’s good for alternative investments because you own it at this price and more people demanding creates this price for your alternative investments. That’s pretty good.
At the same time, if you own hard assets as alternative investments – and not all are hard assets, venture capital is not for example, but real estate specifically – is correlated to inflation. What that means is the assets inflate at least as much, usually more, than the general money supply and prices inflate. So the assets are protecting you because they’re going up with the prices.
Anna: Now, investing is something for the long haul. What are some actionable steps that our audience, any HENRYs out there – high earners who are not rich yet – or any DIY investors who’s trying to navigate this change? What are some actionable steps they can do right now to protect themselves?
CJ: Now is a very tricky time. I’m not going to pretend to know. Keep your money and pay down debt. You’re probably better off paying down debt than you are trying to invest at a very tricky time. This is the trickiest time to invest definitely in stocks and bonds. None of those people on CNBC know what’s happening. The ones you should trust are the ones who tell you they don’t know what’s going to happen. That’s the ones.
So I would actually attack the expense side of your life. Spend less. I hate to say that because that’s going to accelerate the slowing growth. But I have to talk about you, the individual.
Review your budget calmly and see if there are places – not to ruin your life, but that you can reduce spending. Then with that savings from a spending reduction, reduce your student debt, reduce your credit card debt. That’ll give you breathing room.
Then after that, focus on – if you really want to focus on long-term, I think this is the time to wait it out. And the best place to wait it out is in alternative investments, but with hard assets.
I’d say the people who aren’t 40-year professionals like I have been are criticizing high yield savings accounts. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. If you’re getting 4 to 5% – that’s a very decent return. If you’re getting at least 4% and you can at the same time lower your debt, that’s a smart thing to do and you wait it out. Some money in real estate, lower your debt – credit card or student – and put some money away earning 4% for a rainy day.
Not sexy stuff, but smart stuff. Smart moves. Being smart is probably the best thing that you can do in a time like this. Do your research, get educated on the things that you don’t know, and then make the smartest decision for you based off of all of that. Because it’s a time not to move too quickly, to move carefully.
I actually think, getting back to the beginning of our talk, Anna, I think this is the time to slow down and get financially educated and prepare for when you do have to go fast. Because the only way you can go fast is if you educate yourself, test what you know, and then you can go really fast and make decisions quickly because you have confidence in what you know.
Anna: One of my favorite resources that we have, and it’s something that you all can subscribe to as well – shameless plug here – is our newsletter. You can subscribe to it. It is free. Every week, every Sunday you will get sent a 600 to 800 word short little snippet that is packed full – 3 to 4 minutes, it’s only three or four minutes to read. It’s packed full of information about a specific financial topic.
So by the end of the year, you will have fifty-two financial topics that maybe you didn’t know and now you know. Our edition is going to be coming out on Sunday. We’re going to be talking a little bit more on tariffs in that edition.
So if you’re interested in getting access to that, you can sign up to our newsletter. It’ll be the first link that we have down in the description. And always remember to subscribe to the channel so you can get notifications whenever we post something new, whether that be informative shorts or new podcast episodes or interviews with different guests.
We’re here to give you all your financial education from a number of different platforms.
CJ: Thank you. Hey, we are NOYACK, everybody, but so are you. Thank you all.
